AO - actually good links. Initially, the first one annoyed me because of the obvious political agenda of the guy. However, I've spent a little time with it - some points are decent, some are lame. I plan to spend more time on it later. Until then...

I certainly don't plan on becoming the spokesman for the pro-death penalty crowd. As I've said, I go back and forth on this issue. For now, I'm content to allow a victim's family decide a murderer's fate. I guess I'm more sympathetic to their desires than anyone else's. I realize that this view might make me pro-death penalty in most cases. As far as clemency in any case, repentance has always been a factor. And I agree, the issue is death penalty or no death penalty - not is Tookie good or bad.

Nick, I GET YOUR POINT regarding absolute truth. I realize that all we have (now) is viewpoints. I'm merely stating basic logic: p does not equal -p. If I could prove something one way or another, I would do it. I think that I'm the only one on this board that acknowledges his viewpoint has faith built into it.

In regards to your next short step, of course I agree. In Christianity, we call that repentance.

Jeremy, I agree that the DAW is a modern miracle. I'm just not sure how it's existence proves anything. Please show me where I proclaim science as false.

Glenn - thanks for the clarification. It seems to me that you identify more with the anti-right wing crowd than the right wing crowd. Am I right? How come? Why choose one side to define yourself? I'm sure that you will probably object to this characterization - - but you delivered an empassioned explanation for one side and not the other.

I'm not sure anyone will identify with one side or another completely. Nick would be easily categorized as a liberal left loony from someone on the other side (Sorry to use you for that). I'm sure many here have already put me in the "right wing" box. I think that the labels are pointless; the issues need to be dealt with one by one. When people here refer to "the religious right wing extremists" I really have no idea what to think. It's such a loaded term - it shows a preconceived mindset that allows no room for discussion.

So, how does everyone here feel about abortion?