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#51354 - 12/15/05 04:42 AM Re: OT: Evolution
dorkus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 103
Loc: San Jose, CA 95124
To God.
Jeremy, your understanding of history is purely made up. There's not a single secular historian that would agree with your interpretation.

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#51355 - 12/15/05 07:19 AM Re: OT: Evolution
Audiorigami Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 288
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by jeremy hesford:
But then again, as my dad said, it may not have been what he said but what someone said about him, that becamse lore and passed on thru generations.
Right on. Greatness + Time = Myth.

Jesus may have had some great points, but they've been modified through the many translations and retellings through the ages. Have you ever played telephone? Yeah, same thing, except this wasn't ten hyperactive kindergardeners, it was several thousand self-serving adults, many of whom spoke different languages and were ready and willing to accept patently impossible things due to the inescapable ignorance of their times and a desire to instill meaning into their chaotic, frightening world.

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#51356 - 12/15/05 09:29 AM Re: OT: Evolution
sscannon Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 03/18/01
Posts: 2449
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by sscannon:
 Quote:
Originally posted by dorkus:
Christianity is about Jesus, and it proclaims he is the way.
To what? To God.
See, now you've really confused me. There are a few unanswered questions:

I thought I could talk to God anytime I wanted to by praying. What is "the way to God" for Jews and other religions then?

Or is more than half the planet ill-informed and doomed to eternal Hell?

What makes Christians the only ones who have the correct "way to God"?

I'm really curious about this. I would venture to say all religious beliefs are as made up as Jeremy's, only someone else made them up a long time ago. If you could clarify this for me...
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#51357 - 12/15/05 09:39 AM Re: OT: Evolution
mixandburn Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 178
Loc: Northern Calif.
Actually; the canon we have today, or better known as the bible; was assembled by the early church fathers known as the council of elders, in about 90 A.D. . Further, before any one of the books of the bible were added to this canon, they had to pass very rigid standard as to authenticity. As a result, many early writings were excluded because of questionable backgrounds. So, the bible contrary to popular opinion has not been revised and rewritten in any way. We do have different translations today such as the King James, the NIV, the Word, etc., but every one of them is done very carefully by leading language scholars and always directly from the most ancient texts or scrolls available. This attention to detail has been observed so rigidly that translators of old were known to wash themselves everytime before writing the name of God as His name was considered too Holy to simply transcribe without a cleansing. So where this telephone idea comes in I do not know, other than it is not based in fact but rather opinion.
_________________________
Time.. is an ever unfolding succession of events that twist and weave their way in and throughout our lives creating a complex many colored tapestry that becomes the very fabric of who we are.

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#51358 - 12/15/05 10:21 AM Re: OT: Evolution
Nick Batzdorf Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 12161
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Another one:

Greatness + no science at the time = mythology

Did you see the 2100-year-old Mayan painting they found (it was in yesterday's LA Times)? It showed their myth about creation: a god bleeding or something like that. They still tell the same story in Guatemala today.

Is that any different from Western mythology?

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#51359 - 12/15/05 11:31 AM Re: OT: Evolution
dorkus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 103
Loc: San Jose, CA 95124
 Quote:
See, now you've really confused me. There are a few unanswered questions:
Your questions are great, but I'm almost afraid to answer them because of the crap I'm gonna get. Here goes...
 Quote:
I thought I could talk to God anytime I wanted to by praying. What is "the way to God" for Jews and other religions then?
Yes, anyone can pray to God. The "way to God" means many things, but the bottom line is Jesus is the way to be reconciled to God and spend eternity with him (heaven).

 Quote:
Or is more than half the planet ill-informed and doomed to eternal Hell?
Can't really say - God is the one who judges. Some literalists would say yes.

 Quote:
What makes Christians the only ones who have the correct "way to God"?
Well, Christianity is all about Jesus, and Jesus claimed to be the way to God, and many (including me) believe it.

 Quote:
I'm really curious about this. I would venture to say all religious beliefs are as made up as Jeremy's, only someone else made them up a long time ago. If you could clarify this for me...
Your curiosity and skepticism are all warranted. On the surface, I would be inclined to agree with you. Essentially you are asking me, "What does it take to be a Christian, and why would I want to do that?" The answer would involve a conversation that is beyond an internet forum. Let me give you a few basic beliefs that most if not all Christians have; maybe that'll clarify things a little:

1. There is a God.
2. He created us.
3. He is perfect, and we are not.
4. Sin, our imperfection, carries the penalty of death.
5. God has this bizarre exchange that he's willing to make - it's called atonement. Essentially, a prescribed sacrafice can erase sin. Prior to Jesus, the Israelites sacraficed animals.
6. Jesus came as the atonement to everyone that would accept him as such. He had to die to accomplish this.
7. He rose from the dead and still lives.

Accepting Christ is simple and hard. It is merely acknowledging that you believe in him as your Saviour (the atonement thing).

OK, now let me have it.

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#51360 - 12/15/05 12:03 PM Re: OT: Evolution
Nick Batzdorf Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 12161
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Can you erase murder?

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#51361 - 12/15/05 12:15 PM Re: OT: Evolution
dorkus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 103
Loc: San Jose, CA 95124
I see where this is going. The answer is yes.

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#51362 - 12/15/05 12:17 PM Re: OT: Evolution
Dan Weiss Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 07/20/99
Posts: 3650
Loc: New York NY USA
Number 5 is the one that I really get hung up on. That one could conceivably live his life as a worthless slug and by accepting Jesus be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven. But perhaps a scientist who invents a drug that eases the suffering of millions of people and donates all his spare income to humanitarian causes is doomed to burn in hell because he didn't believe in Jesus. One would hope that God in his infinite wisdom and perfection would be a bit more broad minded than that.

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#51363 - 12/15/05 12:22 PM Re: OT: Evolution
dorkus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 103
Loc: San Jose, CA 95124
 Quote:
Jesus may have had some great points, but they've been modified through the many translations and retellings through the ages. Have you ever played telephone? Yeah, same thing, except this wasn't ten hyperactive kindergardeners, it was several thousand self-serving adults, many of whom spoke different languages and were ready and willing to accept patently impossible things due to the inescapable ignorance of their times and a desire to instill meaning into their chaotic, frightening world.
AO - I'm a little surprised - you are not prone to speaking up without backing it up. Your description can't hold water.

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