#51074 - 11/03/05 10:27 AM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Founding Member
Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 2394
Loc: Hampton Bays NY USA
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"And the great thing is that it dosn't even matter what others think or say about what I know is true. I would love others to see the light as I see it and the relationship with this Creator of the universe is really the best part about it, (and I do have a passion for this, and helping others), but it dosn't discourage me when others see it as narrow mindedness. It actually is quite the opposite, it takes a real grand perspective of life, spirituality and people to believe it. Also the wonderful thing about it all is that science, philosophy, and the human spirit do not need to prove Christianity, Christianity proves these things in itself. If one reads the Bible with an open mind and seeks to understand these things it becomes revieled.
You know what is interesting is that people that know me and have a relationship with me, just about all of the ones that didn't believe in Christianity now prayed to recieve Jesus in there hearts as there personal savior. Even my wifes brother who graduated from Brown and is a very smart cat, people I work with, my friends parents, I can't even tell you people that practiced other religions, or atheists and I'm talking about Dozens of people. Now why are people following me on this? It's not cause I'm so great and they all want to be like me, but that I am pointing them toward somthing that is real and can't be ignored as somthing we all need. Now I'm realistic to think that many on this board will say well thats great for TLix and his friends but he is still wrong... and that is a legitimate feeling but everyone still has to seriously look at Jesus and Christianity ........"
Jeeeezzzzzuuuuussssssss :rolleyes:
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#51075 - 11/03/05 10:30 AM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Founding Member
Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 12161
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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anyone else besides jeremy and nick and zum have thoughts? I'm sure they do, but they're too mature to express them. You're confusing two things: Christianity and pure unadulterated bull****.
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#51077 - 11/03/05 12:28 PM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Member
Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 288
Loc: San Diego, CA
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Originally posted by TLiX:
Maybe you missed the equation by the famous physicist Paul Davies and a team of scientists (and not a Christian ones either) c = ?[a + ekt(b + dt)] In this equation c is the curve that the rate of decay that the speed of light is on. The report was given in the journal 'Nature' and the evidence points to that since the speed of light has been slowing down since the creation of the earth that if you follow this formula backwards the age of the universe would be a little less that 6,000 years old. It also explains issues that have come up in the dating methods of the earth and led to the famous book Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth
Larry Vardiman, Andrew A. Snelling, Eugene F. Chaffin that is highly regarded in the scientific world.
These guys are building on what Einstein discovered, and also Einstein wrote some interesting things on the existance of God as well.
yeap Firstly, please read this speech Einsten himself made. Creationists and those with anti-science agendas always try to claim that because Einstein believed in a god, somehow the Christian worldview is validated. That is completely wrong, and is a disservice to Einstein's amazing legacy. See for yourself his words:
Originally posted in 1941 by Albert Einstein:
During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution human fantasy created gods in man's own image, who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate to influence, the phenomenal world. Man sought to alter the disposition of these gods in his own favor by means of magic and prayer. The idea of God in the religions taught at present is a sublimation of that old conception of the gods. Its anthropomorphic character is shown, for instance, by the fact that men appeal to the Divine Being in prayers and plead for the fulfilment of their wishes.
Nobody, certainly, will deny that the idea of the existence of an omnipotent, just and omnibeneficent personal God is able to accord man solace, help, and guidance; also, by virtue of its simplicity it is accessible to the most undeveloped mind. But, on the other hand, there are decisive weaknesses attached to this idea in itself, which have been painfully felt since the beginning of history. That is, if this being is omnipotent then every occurrence, including every human action, every human thought, and every human feeling and aspiration is also His work; how is it possible to think of holding men responsible for their deeds and thoughts before such an almighty Being? In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself. How can this be combined with the goodness and righteousness ascribed to Him?
The main source of the present-day conflicts between the spheres of religion and of science lies in this concept of a personal God....To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot.
But I am persuaded that such behavior on the part of the representatives of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine which is able to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress. In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests.
...And so it seems to me that science not only purifies the religious impulse of the dross of its anthropomorphism but also contributes to a religious spiritualization of our understanding of life.
The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.
Secondly, since you seem to be so fond of anecdotal evidence (which typically has little scientific value), consider an article by Glenn R. Morton entitled Why I Left Young-Earth Creationism Here is a brief summary in his words: Glenn R. Morton writes:
For years I struggled to understand how the geologic data I worked with everyday could be fit into a Biblical perspective. Being a physics major in college I had no geology courses. Thus, as a young Christian, when I was presented with the view that Christians must believe in a young-earth and global flood, I went along willingly. I knew there were problems but I thought I was going to solve them.... I did graduate work in philosophy and then decided to leave school to support my growing family. Even after a year, physicists were still unemployable. After six months of looking, I finally found work as a geophysicist working for a seismic company. Within a year, I was processing seismic data for Atlantic Richfield.
...This was where I first became exposed to the problems geology presented to the idea of a global flood. I would see extremely thick (30,000 feet) sedimentary layers. One could follow these beds from the surface down to those depths where they were covered by vast thicknesses of sediment. I would see buried mountains which had experienced thousands of feet of erosion, which required time. Yet the sediments in those mountains had to have been deposited by the flood, if it was true. I would see faults that were active early but not late and faults that were active late but not early. I would see karsts and sinkholes (limestone erosion) which occurred during the middle of the sedimentary column (supposedly during the middle of the flood) yet the flood waters would have been saturated in limestone and incapable of dissolving lime. It became clear that more time was needed than the global flood would allow.
...I worked hard over the next few years to solve these problems. I published 20+ items in the Creation Research Society Quarterly. I would listen to ICR, have discussions with people like Slusher, Gish, Austin, Barnes and also discuss things with some of their graduates that I had hired.
In order to get closer to the data and know it better, with the hope of finding a solution, I changed subdivisions of my work in 1980. I left seismic processing and went into seismic interpretation where I would have to deal with more geologic data. My horror at what I was seeing only increased. There was a major problem; the data I was seeing at work, was not agreeing with what I had been taught as a Christian. Doubts about what I was writing and teaching began to grow. Unfortunately, my fellow young earth creationists were not willing to listen to the problems. No one could give me a model which allowed me to unite into one cloth what I believed on Sunday and what I was forced to believe by the data Monday through Friday. I was living the life of a double-minded man--believing two things.
...But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.
"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"
That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him. Only those whose faith is untenable disregard ages of advancement and prefer to cling to limiting and limited beliefs. One must be aware that mysteries are meant to be explored, not ignored. Confucius said:
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge.
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#51078 - 11/03/05 12:36 PM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/12/03
Posts: 656
Loc: New York
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33 posts and you guys still don't have this evolution crap figured out? What's a matter with you?
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#51079 - 11/03/05 01:36 PM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Founding Member
Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 6219
Loc: odenton md.
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Tlix, I grew up in this country, have been exposed to the teachings of chritianity my entire life, I've heard it all a gallizion times before.
And it makes abosolutly no sense to me. One of the last things my father said to me before he died was " When something like Christianity makes no sense, you read as much about it as you can". He had a library of over 4000 books, hundreds on Christianty and other world religions.
He knew the history of that religion like the back of his hand. And if you read about how christinaity came about, you well see it's based on primitive achient cultures , myths, ledgends, storys, (fairytales).
They just didn't have the knowlage we have today.
But I won't say that what your experencing isn't real, to you. And it is the framework for alot of people to live their lives. Everyone has a sprirtual nature. But if something is true,real,then it can't fly in the face of known data. There should be no reason it should.
The particular religion I practice does not contradict known scientific fact. And I to am having a spirtual experence, everyday. My particular belief lends itself to personal responsibility, karma (which translates into "action"). No god brings misery or happieness into my life, like the bible says, you reap what you sow.
So I am a very religous person, but in a different way. I practice to improve and strengthen myself. To move beyond where i'm at now, to evolve. It's not easy, to keep it up.
So I have a religous belief, and evolution makes perfect sense to me. Like some have said, we don't have all the pieces to the puzzel, but there is an enormus amout of data suggesting the earth is millions of years old. To ignore that, twist the facts, is proff that that particular belief system is false. BUT, you can still believe in it, have a spirtual experence with it.
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#51082 - 11/03/05 05:57 PM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Member
Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 340
Loc: FL
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Originally posted by TheHopiWay:
I'm also looking forward to purchasing a master word clock in the near future. You know. For the DA7. Zen...  Barry
_________________________
B. L. A.
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