Good grief, Charlie Brown. There are plenty of people that have done tests beyond the converter differences and now understand that the very "engine" of a DAW can have a "sound" as well as the summing busses, of course. All these different DAW's we've mentioned are pro as soon as you get it in the hands of a pro! ProTools has become the "standand" because they were there when computers were very limited...they got in on the ground floor of the market and thus have the most 3rd party development for their system. It is very accepted that PT has some fundamental flaws in it's design..issues that compromise the audio in certain ways. There are other systems out there that do sound way better...like the sadly forgotten Paris for example. The sound is way more musical and desirable over PT . --poor marketing and business on Ensoniq's part, I guess, or maybe, PT's strong arm in the market...who knows.

Protools isn't jam packed with features. What it does very well and that's record, edit and mix audio. Especially when you are recording a lot of audio at once. It's funny you should mention Cool Edit Pro because I used to think that was a killer program. Then my track count got high and everything starting turning to sh-t! Most of it was due to the bandwidth of the Windows NT operating system which is what I was using at the time. Everyone I talked to at the time (around 2000) said Protools on a Mac. Sure enough that did the trick and we were rocking.

It's nice to think all these other programs are great bargains, but how much of a bargain is it when the program fails? Also I would submit Protools is a whole lot easier to learn and use. Everyone just poo-poo's it because of it's price. Well, I don't like how much a Mercedes costs but I'd admit it's a great car when I drive it. Also, in the years before DAWs existed a 2" multitrack tape machine might have cost a lot more than Protools does today. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. No, not all DAWs are created equal. Some really suck. Protools rocks. Just ask Lenny Kravitz.

But Justin, you bring up a subject that has flame all over it...

Computers help us???? From what I've seen in the last few years is that computers are evil. They eat more time than matenance on an analog machine and always keep us thinking were stupid or doing something wrong. And if the thing needs an upgrade it will shut your studio down for maybe weeks. Yea they are faster when they are setup right, but that changes like the wether and the upgrades.

Raj, I wasn't dis'sn ya at all, just commenting on the pricing - which you added the 50. an hour rate into the pot and leans it to a better profit margin - 15 bucks is a lot per hour and tweeks up the average a lot. $125. is a bit assumptive on your part, I mearlly ment that it seems there is a little more room to get a better product for your clients with a more expensive rate. You can buy better equipment for just a few dollers an hour more. I don't charge $125. an hour but would if I thought I could, and have with complete faith from my clients. I have no problem being responsable for my work and if I screw up it is OK to nfix it on my dime. It is easy to fill up the calinder with recording gigs where I couldn't make my monthly nut, I would rather charge a little more and not work as hard, all the time. It is nice to let others do stuff you don't need or want to do. Charging enough to have the client feel it can and will stimulate them to better, faster more productive sessions. I don't want to record just for my ability to do it, I want to work with pros who can deliver and see the need to get a great product at a fair market price. I'll send clients to $100. an hour voice lessions and expect them to get better and feel fine when I ask for my share, after all they are comming to me for my expertice from the many decades that I have been making records. I feel I am a jopurneyman not an apprentace, and I'm not saying you are, I just saying a little more an hour can help you and instill more fath in your ability. You'll never get the money you lost undercharging a client, even if the client brings in many other potential gigs from word of mouth.

Why would you assume that anyone here who doesn't adore Pro Tools as you do, hasn't actually used the program on a daily basis? I have, and will continue to do so - I don't need to "learn" it. Also, your presumption that all of the people that endorse non-Pro Tools DAW's are paid to sway their opinion is simply not correct. I know and have hired many of the Nuendo endorcers, and this is just not so, Justin.

I would be interested to know if you have ever done a shootout between the various DAW platforms - it has been my experience that there is an appreciable difference (not necessarily better or worse, just different) between the sound of different DAW's using the same sound files and the same hardware.

And, although you might think its BS (and I can't really understand why you are so tweaked about this one particular topic), there is an audible problem with the summing buss on Pro Tools. It is the reason why many professionals (including myself) do not mix inside the box. It is one of the reasons for the design concept behind the new baby SSL.

All that being said, if Pro Tools works for you, great! No one is saying it (or you) suck The presumption that only Pro Tools, however, is the true professional choice is not only misguided, it is just not correct.

Unless, of course, you are kidding about this whole thread

I think WE ALL forgot the original posters ??????

Wether PT would help his studio out.....


alright eve'body line up for the p*ssin match!!

:rolleyes:

rock

sdf

All this bullsh!t kinda makes you want to sell all your gear and move to Hawaii. Debate solved!

The following links might be of interest...

http://www.3daudioinc.com/catalog/produc...5637ed33e2dc6d9


http://www.digidesign.com/digizine/archive/digizine_may04/techtalk/

http://www.tweakheadz.com/review_of_motu_digital_performer.htm

Being in L.A., everyone I work with uses every available platform that's right for the task at hand. But the common thread is that the project usually ends up in PT at some point or another. Does PT sound the best? No. But, it could with the right converters. I'm currently doing a 5.1 mix for a DVD project and PT is the DAW of choice for this task simply because it works. Most of the stuff I get starts in DP or Logic and ends up in PT. What's the point to this reply? Get whatever your clients need you to have so you can deliver the best sounding product in the quickest time possible. Efficiency is the key. If you do this time and time again, you'll always be working.

True, nobody would argue that - it takes great musicians, great songs, great mic pres and a hundred other things to make a successful production. A good DAW like Protools can only help.

False. This cuts to the point of what I'm trying to say here. DAWs like everything else, some are better than others. In my opinion, some do core features like recording and plugins badly. I can't tell you how many times Protools has helped solve problems by using corrective EQ for example.

All true except that last part. A good tool will make help a carpenter do a better job. Same applies here.


I disagree. I know, I've done it. Cool Edit Pro is fine for hobbiests. It's not a professional tool.
Frankly I think this is belly-aching. These companies aren't in business to make your life miserable. They don't sit around thinking "how can we give GregK a hard time." On the contrary, they want your loyalty. The fact is, some people have budgets and some don't. So these companies have to define what market they are going to sell to. In the case of Digidesign, they've made low end versions (001, and 002) that are doing well. I think you spend 6-8x more you get more power with Protools, but this seems quite contested in this forum. I disagree.

You could've found better examples. Protools does handle stereo wavs, sdII or aiffs. It zooms down right to the sample level which is how you can easily do perfect loop editing that doesn't pop.

You know, I like Vegas and SoundForge for what they are. But not for tracking, recording and mixing music - no way. SoundForge is great for working with 2 tracks. I think Vegas is a great program for video editing but needs improvement.


Greg - you've obviously worked with older versions of Protools. Take a look at the HD stuff that's been out since 2002 I think. It really packs a lot of processing power, features and simplicity into it's abilities. When it comes down to it, I want a DAW that

1.) Is reliable and sounds good
2.) Edits fast without a lot of gimmicky features I don't need
3.) Allows me to insert eq, compression and effects without bogging down my computer
4.) Allows me to hear these effects in real time and with low latency(3ms) so I can create a pleasurable headphone mix for the person I'm recording.
5.) Allows for plenty of simultaneos ins/outs when recording.

Frankly, I don't know of another DAW that does all these basic features as well as Protools. :p

Justin, I'm sitting here wondering why you are so rabidly defending Protools, while totally dismissing anybody else's opinion as "unenlightened". What is behind this? Plenty of hit records were made before Protools came on the scene, and plenty are being made today without touching Digi's hardware or software. For you to be so myopic is downright baffling.