Now you have crossed the line of common decency Justin. You have outed me at Rad Shack.

Do you really need Protools??? Yes you do!

Jusin, I hope you are joking. The real answer depends on a few factors that WWIII does not seem to indicate 100%. I would say that WWIII does not need PT...number one, he can't afford it. Number two, he can't afford it. And, number three, LE is a joke...so, the final answer: he does not need PT. DP, Logic, Nuendo, the latest Cubase all blow PT LE completely away. So why would anyone buy PT LE unless they were just being ead astray simply by the name "Protools". Don't get me wrong, if it were in his budget to get PT HD and it would not take away from his budget to also have good mic pres and mics etc, then sure, why not add it to the studio, next to DP or Logic or Nuendo or an old Paris system!? But he doesn't have that kind of a budget... So it seems like rediculous and bad advice to give to him. I consider it a wrong against him to give such advice, knowing that there are far superior tools for the job within his budget. Digi 002 is a joke compared to the other options in that price range. With DP3.1 or 4 you an export the DP file as an OMF interchange document then the PT studio can open it with Digitranslator perfectly as a PT session; --very simple and quick...first hand knowledge and experience with this many, many times...works wonderfully. Dude, give it a rest. --good grief! :rolleyes:

I get 32 tracks with LE. I use the DA7's converters. The sound is great. Some of the bands I work with are getting signed, some are national acts already, others are selling tons of their CDs, and still others are getting airplay. And... I made 50K using LE (001) and a mac in 10 months. It is a pretty good joke! I guess everything is relative. I have Nuendo, DP, Logic, Samplitude, Vegas, etc., but PT for me is the best for the way I like to work. The HD systems are very expensive, but I just wanted to chime in on the above quote. Even Nuendo is $1,300 before hardware and computer costs. Cheers!

Paul - I'm not joking.

I can't speak directly to how good PT LE (001 or 002) are but apparently Scannon, theproduca and tons of others don't think it's a joke - frankly I'm amazed Scannon get's 32 tracks out of a native system - I wonder if that represents the max. number of simultaenous tracks he can record at one time.

In terms of software, Protools is 2nd to none. I could list a host of reasons but I'll give you just one... It's by far the easiest to learn and use. Ok here's another. Rock solid reliable.

To sum up, here's why I feel the way I do.

1.) I still don't believe a computer running native audio software is sufficient to do professional recording (although if anyone could change my mind on this, it would be Scannon). To use a lot of plugins, you need the power of additional cards/hardware. I guess if you're using a ton of outboard gear, maybe not, but I feel good plugin's (like Waves) are indispensible for crafting a mix.

2.) There are severe compromises in the leading competitors that I would not want to live with. Logic for example is great for sequencing but leaves much to be desired for audio. DP plugin's are weak and it crashes often. Nuendo is set up more like a mixing console than an editor. I have never/ever used the mix window in Protools, this is purely window dressing IMO for people who like sliders on a console. The edit window in Protools rules.

Do you need Protools?? Yes you do.

Also, stop whining about Digi's customer service and the high cost of HD. Most of you spend a fortune on instruments, mics, mic pres etc. It's all relative. A high end 24 track 2" tape machine probably costs well over $20K. Paying $17K for Protools HD|2, a Mac and Monitor, SCSI Hard Drive (or Firewire) and 96 I/O interface isn't out of line for what that system can do. Please no more stories about Nubus and Audiomedia III. Computers are much, much better today than in 1996.

I hate to say it, Justin, but you can get *way* more than 32 tracks on a native system. Over 100 of playback tracks is more like it.

And I think you'd be surprised how many plug-ins you can run on a dual gig G4, never mind a G5. I've already said that add-on DSP + native will always beat native, but to me the big advantage to TDM hardware is that it frees the native processors for running things like Altiverb!

And I don't know about Paul, but in general the only reason people say PT LE is a joke is that they regard limiting it to 32 tracks as intentionally crippling it. You can get way more than that out of the same hardware using other software that doesn't have a hard limit (DP, Logic, etc.).

Also, your argument about people's whining about the price is in a vacuum. Of course HD doesn't cost as much as a tape recorder (at least not a new one!). The comparison is to other DAWs on the market, not to hardware.

I don't think HD is a rip-off, because I agree that it's very good. But the price is a reality.

BOTTOM LINE:

Is ProTools the best performance you can get for the money?
Probably not.

Will it draw more clients, dollar for dollar, than any other investment?
Yeah, it will.

Audio purists HATE ProTools (or mixing 'in-the-box' in general -- hell, most of 'em hate digital), but businessmen LOVE it.
Also, I agree w/Justin, et al that if you HAVE to start from scratch learning software, it's the easiest one to learn. That being said, I use it only for editing, not tracking or mixing.

FYI- I mix through the DA7, and use the reverbs and delays in my rack. I easily get 32 tracks and gobs of plugins on my G4 1GHz. Rarely do I run out of juice. I send 16 outs from PT through the DA7 (bank 2) to another computer with Sound Forge and Wavelab, and TRacks, and I use the DA7's dither on the way, unless I am mixing to 24 bit. I rarely use the moving faders on the DA7 with MAX, I prefer to write the automation in PT. I say PT rocks, even with the antiquated 001, it is no joke, and has served me well. I will, however, say that the other software programs I own are also killer, and will give me a lot more tracks if I am willing to use their interface. I just happen to like the PT interface. I, too, use mainly the edit window, like Justin. The mix window does not solve any problems for me that I can't handle immediately in the edit window. My philosophy is "whatever works, use it" and "if it sounds good, it is good". I did a hundred records on a 1/2" 16 track with a carvin mixer back in the day, and this PT rig with the DA7 is light years ahead of that, especially with 32 tracks and the DA7's scene memory. More work done in less time, generating more business and more money for more stuff. Believe it or not, I also have a Sony 3324 reel to reel digital deck with an Allen and Heath 48x24 mixer as my "B" room. Great sound, but lots of work. Cheers,
Sean

Justin, the reality is that YOU want WWIII to "need" PT, but he does not actually NEED it. Who do you think you are? ...telling someone that they NEED Protools? There are other options in his price range that are better. He has already said he can't afford it...so why not come up with some alternatives? Why not discuss other good DAW's that can do more than PT LE for less money and have more open ended options for hardware? It's a big world with lots of choices...PT LE is only one choice and from what I've seen it is not as powerful a program as DP for example - not even close...As I've mentioned above, friends of mine have bought and used PT LE only to be dissappointed when they see what DP can do that they can't seem to do with their PT LE software; one of these friends has already gone out and bought DP 4 and was immediately happier (he said it was easier to understand and use, also). I have a friend that has used PT (the real one) since it's beginning and still uses it in it's latest form; he's been on the upgrade path with them for years. When he sees certain things that I do in DP that he can't do in PT it blows his mind. He has even said that he will get the DP upgrade and try to start incorporating it's power in some aspects of his studio. Of course, I know that PT (not LE) can do things that DP can't, as well. From my exposure to PT LE is seems very crude compared to DP as far as editing etc. And (once again), why do you have to have their hardware to run LE!?!?!? Our drummer has DP and when we travel and fly he can get out his laptop and work a bit, but our guitar player sadly pulls out his Mac on the plane to be limited to some Reason programming...his LE won't work without the DIGI 002 hardware. He has plainly told me that he regrets his purchase of LE and would like to go another route when he can justify the move. And of course you can make amazing full blown records with LE if you have the right gear and engineering prowess and the right band etc. Even the worst DAW is a god-like machine compared to what was available some years back. So, since we are in this era of all these DAW choices, why not look them all over and pick the best one for the job. LE just flat out can't compare to a program like DP...even though LE is a powerful piece, but they all are. In the early 70's when 24 track was possible, the band Yes took it to it's limits to create their amazing music, with lots of tape cutting edits! Just think if LE was around back then with a computer to run it (well. actually it likely would have scewed them up and we would not have their work as we know it). Of course you can do amazing things with
LE...all the DAW's can do amazing things with lots of tracks, but which of them is "better" for the kind of work you're doing? Which is open ended toward hardware choices? Which allows you freedom to edit and work away from the studio without lugging around the "required I/O"? This is one of the big issues I have with Digidesign...the requirement to have the hardware to run the software (come on...LE is native!!). In the end perhaps PT LE will be fine for WWIII, but I'm not going to tell him that he NEEDS it or even better that he NEEDS DP4. I am merely pointing out that there are other options that would allow him more freedom in terms of hardware, perhaps a "better" software for his taste and working style, perhaps for less money than even an LE system...I am not telling WWIII that he NEEDS something just because I prefer it. It just seems very obvious to me that if he needs to interface on occassion with a PT studio that there are other DAW's that can do that very easily. --good night.