If you're not liberal then you don't deserve to own a DA7.

out of my cold dead hands nick!
Just like the NRA!

If we try to explain it by using the incompetence theory, it doesn’t
make sense. For example, if it was incompetence, we would expect
that there would have been a normal inquiry into what went wrong.
We would have expected that there would be some kind of
reprimands, that certain officials would be downgraded, or they would
lose their jobs, or something would have happened to correct the
situation.
But we find that there have been no such reprimands at all.
But I think it’s pretty clear now to everybody that America has an oil
geo-strategy in that part of the world.

Honestly, the whole Iraq thing is a lot deeper than conservatives vs. liberals. While we're wasting time sorting out who is accountable for what, and what abuses took place where, our adversaries are planning their next move to murder more civilians and innocent people. I am convinced that if another person is elected into office other than Bush, we will be in deeper **** than anyone can imagine. Will I be voting out of fear the next election? You're damn right I will be.

Meanwhile, I have seen nothing but criticism, pandering and indeciveness among liberals, who presumably think the whole problem would go away if we just pulled out. I would rather have a decisive leader with a focused goal (i.e. eliminate terrorism) than an idealistic demagogue who thinks Bush is the cause of our problems.

If you really believe Bush caused our problems, maybe you also feel that other countries do their share, the UN is efficient and that terrorism is sometimes justified....

What planet are you on?

That could be part of it. It would be nice not to have to rely on Saudi-Arabia, since they probably had mor to do with 9/11 than Iraq did.
I think the goal was also to have a presence in the Middle east. To do it, all we needed to do was get rid of the tyranical leader of a 3rd world nation who was not complying with the treaty he signed to get us to stop putting the hurtin on him from the Gulf War.

There is also the theory that it was intended to focus terrorist attention to iraq rather than the US, and if that was a reason, it seems to be working.

and I thought someone did get fired over the intelligence screw up.. or rather that he "retired".

What I dont get is why people are so uptight over the WMD thing.
We know he HAD them becuase we GAVE them to him back in the 80's! If i remember correctly it was due to a common enemy at the time.. Iran.

Those are the weapons he used on the Kurds.
So we KNOW they had them! if they got rid of them or hid them really well I dont know, but the fact is:

we know he had them becuase we gave them to him.

he was ordered to get rid of them and show proof that he had done so.

he threw our inspectors out of the country and never fully complied with the inspections.

That alone was enough for us to do away with him.

Agreed. The whole place would turn upside down if we pulled out now.
Of course the liberals would say it is already upside down, and it is true that things are not going very well..
But like I think I said before.. if we pulled out now the place would be taken over by islamic fundamentalists ala the Taliban, and we will have once again betrayed the Iraqi people who actauly ARE appreciative of being liberated from Hussein. And yes, I do believe there are a great number of them who are happy to be rid of that man.

Can I just get something clear?

No one actually believes America went into this thing because they had to defend democracy. I mean, come the f**k on!

This war was coming for a long time. Zbigniew Brzezinski who had been Jimmy Carter’s National Security Advisor, who also worked in Intelligence roles for Presidents Reagan and Bush I, was co-founder of
the Trilateral Commission… he wrote a book in 1997 called The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and its Geo-Strategic Imperatives, and in three specific places in that book, he says that the key to America’s
control of the world in the 21st Century is the control of Eurasia. In support of his thesis, Brzezinski states, “A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world’s three most advanced and economically productive regions and about thee-fourths of the world’s known
energy resources.”
Then he says that without an attack on the order of Pearl Harbor or without a direct external threat, there was no way that the American people would support the imperial mobilization necessary to control
central Asia.

And in this book - again written in 1997 - Brzezinski had a map of where the next world conflict was going to be and you look at this map in the book and it is exactly where we are fighting now.

Hello 911...

Nick Batzdorf wrote:
Nick, by any chance, are you a writer for the New York Times (or have you ever considered a career in political journalism?)

well, you have to agree that it sounds better than "Me and my boys in the Skull and Bones and the Illuminati are bent on global domination and we need to take over Iraq first. Hope you dont mind. God Bless America."

Oh ya, I forgot, only Americans love freedom.

Ahhh, sh*t...with heads this deep in the sand, Bush is gonna win.