I agree with this as well and would even venture to say that as science progress continues, it opens the door for a stronger faith in the one that studies this. Every science, psychology, math, education cource that I have taken in college has helped to me understand what I believe and solidify my personal view of the world and God.
yea, yea Sam thats great for you buddy, what ever you need to believe to get you through the day... sure keep convincing yourself :rolleyes:

What's so moral about some species or individuals surviving and others not, animals eating each other, and all the other cruelties of nature?

And therefore all the world's Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, atheists, agnostics, and so on will spend the afterlife in hell.

You're telling me that you can't look around you, your ability to have relationships with people, etc, and you don't recognize anything incredible happening? Then, I guess you're right. The world sucks. How can there be a god?

Do you even recognize the term 'moral?' I'm not implying anything about you personally. A "might makes right" world goes against the compassionate side of our human nature. How can you look at the world like this? And if you don't, how come?

Even if you were actually arguing with something I said instead of something you've constructed that has absolutely nothing to do with any of my opinions about anything, the idea that evolution is amoral - and it clearly is - has nothing to do with whether or not there's a god.

More importantly, you don't have to be theistic to appreciate the wonder of it all. I often complain about the arrogance of religion (some religion, not all religion of course), and that idea is a big part of it. Why would you think that one has to believe in God to have ethics, morals, successful relationships with other human beings, and generally feel the world is worth contributing to?

Well, this was all you gave me. Of course I don't think that anyone really views the world like that(for the most part), but it is the natural conclusion if you follow any form of natural selection.

I'm often confused by the foundational beliefs of humanists, atheists, agnostics, etc. They seem inconsistent to me - I never hear anything about the evolution of morality, love, spirituality, etc., or even any explanation beyond the fact that humans are merely other animals. I resist this because I see more to it. So of course, don't let me put you into a box, and give me a clue to THE TRUTH as you see it.

I don't think that you have to believe in God to be moral - Its just seems more logical. It is easier to believe there is a design (intelligent of course) and something higher than myself than it is to think that everything is the result of random mutations - Faith in something rather than faith in nothing.

As I said early on in this thread, evolution explains the process but not the magic in between all that.

When I say that nature - and evolution is a part of nature - is amoral, I mean that there's nothing sentimental about any of it. One species survives its environment because it's better adapted, another doesn't. The food chain and how animal populations keep themselves under control is amoral.

And we are "just animals" in one sense. I've posted this many times before, but my cousin Koko the gorilla has an IQ of 90! Another angle is that we also have a beast within, and that's what causes us to go to war with each other.

The difference between us and animals is that we have a choice to control that.

Plus there's the small matter of us "not living by bread alone"...

Yes, it is easier. If everyone was like you, no progress would be made because it's way easier to just let your traditions do the thinking for you and never investigate anything. If you take the time to learn some genetics, learn some astrophysics, and learn some biology then all the things which are too hard for you to understand now will begin to make sense.

A person can go through life relying on "common sense" and "intuition" and "feelings" and be perfectly happy and productive. If you learn any quantum physics or relativity, for example, you will learn quite fast that human intuition has absolutely nothing to do with what goes on at the atommic or galactic scales. To learn advanced topics such as those, one needs to rely on mathematical and physical evidence, and not on what "feels right." You cannot disprove the scientific advances which I'm referring to. They make almost all electronic products possible. They make most fundamental research possible. If you think that evolution and abiogenesis aren't simple and easy to understand it's because they're not--they take some critical thought and analysis. That doesn't make them wrong.

Einstein said "There are two ways to live your life: One is as though nothing is a miracle, the other is as though everything is a miracle."

He also said (in his book "My views on Religion") that there are basically 3 types of religion: The primitive religion (based on idolatry and icon warship), Moral religion (2/3rds of the world religion based on morals and ethics... ie Christianity, Buddhism etc.), and then there is "cosmic religion"... which few people understand and it is their duty to educate the rest of us.

He also said that he was proud to be a Jew, but in his opinion Judaism was more of a tradition than a religion.

Anyway... he was a pretty smart guy and I think he understood that science and evolution and the big bang didn't negate the notion of a cosmic order or Energy Gestalt or if you prefer ..."God".

Just thought I'd share.

AK

Hello Mr Audiorigami - I'm glad we're in agreement... but who's talking about disproving science? I'm talking about fulfilling it and finding purpose behind it - if it's there. Is it your position that complexity proves something? I think that the exact opposite case can be made. It's funny that while studying physics and math I've come to conclusions that are completely opposite of yours.

Please tell me where I'm missing the boat. Oh, and you can use big terms.

Andrew K - I would agree. Nick - you'd probably be surprised by how much I agree with you. That magic is a tough thing to explain... Thanks for a non-condescending post.

However, I'm stuck on this - evolution is just a theory - as far as people on this board are willing to defend it. Most want to proclaim it as the truth, and then snicker at the uneducated misled sheep that dare to question it. It makes me wonder who really knows what pill they are swallowing.