#51044 - 11/01/05 09:55 PM
OT: Evolution
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Founding Member
Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 6219
Loc: odenton md.
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To evolve, grow, progress. Isn't that just a natural cycle of life? Arn't we constantly trying to move beyond or go to a greater level than we are now? Isn't that just a natural instint?
Life without evoling is stagnet, regressive, passive, boring.
So here's my thought. The problem most people have with the mechanics of evolution is there is no spirtual influence or power behind this process. It's eather one or the other, creation by a god or just some mechnical process that happens by chance.
What about the fusion of both? We live in a world completly controled by the laws of physcics (please excuse my spelling), we are able to get a satilite to Mars because there are certian laws in the universe that are absolute.
Science has a good argument about the nature of these laws of physicis that we take advantage of everyday. And the scientific community throughout the world stands behind the "concept" of evolution. You know, the guys who figure out how to enable you to drive to work...
But, and a big but , as a believer in a "power" inherent in the universe, I would say there is a "force", a causal law of life that enables this cycle of creation of new planets throught the universe, an essence that is as much a part of who we are as what is most visable to us.
I have my own beliefs through my own real world exerence with it which i'm not going to use this forum to expouse on. Just a thought, there can be evolution with a spirtual force behind it.
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#51046 - 11/02/05 07:28 AM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Founding Member
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2768
Loc: Whittier, CA, USA
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Originally posted by Nick Batzdorf:
Evolution is the mechanism, not of the magic of it all. And it's a fact: the gene pool evolves over time. Yea look at Nicks icon and thats what he used to look like :p
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#51047 - 11/02/05 07:29 AM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Member
Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 178
Loc: Northern Calif.
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How could we have possibly solved the mysteries of the universe here when science for the most part doesn't yet have a clue as to what goes on in our own galaxy much less an endless universe.I think scientific community is way too serious about themselves. They are constantly changing their position on supposed absolutes based on the stream of new data relavent to current technology that seems to flow daily.
_________________________
Time.. is an ever unfolding succession of events that twist and weave their way in and throughout our lives creating a complex many colored tapestry that becomes the very fabric of who we are.
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#51048 - 11/02/05 08:01 AM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Member
Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 288
Loc: San Diego, CA
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Originally posted by mixandburn:
How could we have possibly solved the mysteries of the universe here when science for the most part doesn't yet have a clue as to what goes on in our own galaxy much less an endless universe.I think scientific community is way too serious about themselves. They are constantly changing their position on supposed absolutes based on the stream of new data relavent to current technology that seems to flow daily. You have put it beautifully. You just misunderstand what science is. Changing our outlook on the universe when we get a better understanding of it's workings is precisely what the scientific method is about. Jeremy, you referred to the "absolute" laws of the universe--you're a bit mistaken, too. Science is built on a foundation of ever-changing observation and analysis. The "laws" of nature are only immutable insofar as counter-evidence is undiscovered. Over human history, scientists have constantly altered, modified, or even thrown out entire theories based on emerging data. Just look at one branch of physics: the search for the fundamental units of matter. First came the concept of the four elements, then the postulation of the atom. Then the atom's structure itself was discovered, and over time from Plato to Bohr to Heisenberg to today's physicists, the entire story has been one of constant evolution. mixandburn, you hit the nail right on the head when you noted that technology is what allows us to deepen our understanding of physics. We could have not discovered quarks without the aid of particle accelerators. We will not discover what lies beneath the ice of Europa without as-of-yet nonexistent technology. The human struggle to comprehend reality is aided by our most powerful tool, our inventions--both physical, as in the case of the Hubble telescope; or representational, as in the case of Newton's calculus. The error enters into it when people think that what we have discovered in our brief time here are the unchanging Laws of Nature. Virtually all of science undergoes a constant refinement and modification. It's what makes it powerful--anyone with evidence and a repeatable experiment can change how we see the universe. Just because we have two robots on Mars doesn't mean we understand everything about spaceflight. Remember, we've also lost other robots, spacecraft, and human astronauts. If a person doesn't understand the scientific method, it's easy to shoot it down because "it's always wrong." It's especially easy to say that when one has been brought up with a background of religious belief in an unchanging, infinite, omnipotent diety. However, science's greatest strength is it's ability to change in order to better describe our universe based on the new data gathered, century after century, by an uncountable number of people.
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#51049 - 11/02/05 10:29 AM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Minneapolis
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And it's a fact: the gene pool evolves over time. Thank you for bringing so much humor into my day. As Steven Wright said - Its a fact: I played a blank CD at full volume and it drove the mime downstairs insane.
_________________________
zrocks for urinal.
Obviously I'm stupid.
And you're a quimbus.
~ Nick Batzdorf
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#51050 - 11/02/05 10:53 AM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Founding Member
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2768
Loc: Whittier, CA, USA
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stars yea stuff like this article cracks me up cause they first really don't know 'not conclusive' and they throw in the 100 million year concept which is also conclusive and also has been disproven as much with science more so than proven and then use the word 'created' in the same article. I guess this is what your saying, j. its like a hybrid philosophy of creation and evolution. I do agree that there are elements of things evolving in our world, but just think that Darwin was waaaayyy off, and that as far as animals, humans, and plants go... we'll we have been the same makeup since we were created some 6,000 years ago. I just read recently that scientists and not neccissarly christian ones came up with a new way to date the earth by the earths layer formation, and previously they thought it was millions of years old due to the millions of layers... untill they found a mamouth skeliton that was embedded in what they would have said was tens of thousands of years of layers. In other words a massive flood or mudslide created these layers and when they studied how many sections of layers there were they came up with thousands of years old instead of millions. As far as growing and progressing, I watch high school students every day and can tell you that we are mentally and cognitavily no farther along than any other time period. Maybe the food we eat and sleeping patterns along with hours of entertainment are making us stupider. Reverse evolution? Anyway the absolutes I know are that the 'force' behind all the laws of science and physics and things evolving is knowable and has even more to offer our lives. Like Switchfoot sings, 'we were ment to live for so much more, have we lost ourselves, somewhere we live inside, somewhere we live inside.' my2
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#51051 - 11/02/05 12:15 PM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Site Admin
Founding Member
Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 3276
Loc: Portland, OR
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taken from http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2002/031302.asp
PRESIDENT DELIVERS INCONTROVERTIBLE DENUNCIATION OF DEMOCRATIC FAIRY TALE OF EVOLUTION
Press Briefing by the President
THE PRESIDENT: Good morning. This week sees the good people of the non-pollution-belching state of Ohio convening their Board of Education in an effort to ensure that future generations of mid-western children are educated in schools offering a fair & balanced approach to explaining how the Christian version of God invented white people in His image.
As you know, the latter half of the 20th century saw the fields of education and so-called "science" come to be hopelessly corrupted by a certain liberal fairy tale known as "evolution." This concept, which was so famously hatched in the midst of a fatal LSD overdose by the syphilitic homosexual Democrat and self-described earth-worshipping pagan Charles Darwin, has, with the passage of time, been embraced as gospel by the liberal, Christ-killing intellectual establishment that rules over our nation's institutions of higher learning like a jack-booted ideological Gestapo.
"Evolution" maintains that both yours and my grandparents are in fact rhesus monkeys - the very same vermin-infested walking carpets whose dissected eyes are so essential to corporate America's ongoing and valiant quest for the perfect kiwi-raspberry-scented shampoo. "Evolution" further asserts that upon death, each of us reverts back to a jungle-dwelling state in the afterworld, where we swing naked from trees, feast on rotten bananas, and shamelessly play with our private parts right out in the open - not unlike Jenna's UT roommate on her pay-per-view webcam.
Little more than a deranged fantasy, "evolution" is perverted liberalism gone wild - distorting the reality of our shared history as God's creatures. Were an evolutionist to remake "Back to the Future," little Alex P. Keaton would still emerge from his DeLorean (which, incidentally, was designed and built by my old nose candy buddy Johnny D.) and meet up with his grandmother - but instead of having an incestuous tryst, the two of them would just sit around grunting, pounding their monkey chests and heaving fistfuls of feces in each other's mouths! You call that science? My closet communist colleague Tom Daschle may think so, but I sure don't! And I think I'm on solid ground when I say that most Americans are with me on this one.
And so this morning, I want to take this opportunity to formally denounce the Democratic fairy tale of evolution, and to praise the vocal minority within the Republican-voting state of Ohio for its tireless efforts to introduce the theory of "Intelligent Design" - which, of course, isn't really a theory at all, inasmuch as it has been proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that God himself created our frail and cancer-prone bodies as perfect reflections of His own glory. Going forward, let us all look to Ohio as shining example of the just and sorely needed erosion of the separation of church and state within the public school system that this Christian nation so sorely needs.
Thank you. No questions, please.
_________________________
Justin
Site Admin
audiotalkback.com
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#51053 - 11/02/05 12:49 PM
Re: OT: Evolution
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Founding Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 2211
Loc: Aptos, CA, USA
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Jeremy,
The fusion of both is now commonly refered to as "intelligent design." There are those that are trying to bridge the gap between polar stances of science and religeon by asking the question - Are they exclusive of each other? can they Co-exist? AS in most debates those on the ends are screaming "hell no". While there are those in the scientific commnity and the Theological community saying... .Yes. Could God create the earth as Fully Mature and old? Yes.. Could God have created it and allowed natural selection and evolution to happen by design? Sure. As in most debates one has to decide how to explain the issues on the other side. If there are no uncaused events.. Who started it? If there is evolution, who was there to witness it? Who knows what things really looked like?
Once again we have polarized each other in our quest for who is right. Both sides are intollerant and unable to reslove the issues. That is sad.
As for me. I have closely studied the fossell record and have a few friends in the scientific community - One spoke at UC Berkeley the other day on this matter. I think the matter is inconclusive at best. We tend to follow the road map or outline of the presenter. If you are an evolutionist.. a teacher somewhere told you about it (for most people that beleive). Are you a creationist? Chances are your sunday school teacher probably told you about it (again, for most who beleive). Very few have actually done indepth study.
Bottom line for me is that I figure both systems of belief rely upon faith in an unseen sorce. No one was there to see the full process of evolution and there are quite a few holes in the system. On the other hand.. no one has seen God either. Im sure that if God is there that He could create what ever he wants however he wants and when he want. If He couldn't he wouldnt be God.
Frankly, I think this is a ****ing contest for each side. I find very few people that actually want to sit down in a room and look at all the cards on the table and form conclusions. Its mostly.. I believe what I want to believe -
peace,
Jeff
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