I said it well may end the world as we know it. Of course it's an exaggeration, but we're a few suicide and dirty bombs away from total disaster.
There are serious points on both side of the abortion debate, but that's not one of them. Abortion is a very difficult issue, and that just makes light of it.

And I hear Hitler is coming back from the dead so you can vote for him.

"4 More years of Bush will lead to "ending the world as we know it."
"A bit alarmist, I think"

Uh, go ahead and call me an alarmist, but I'm gonna point out here that the world as we know it has already ended.

And Knife, why don't you post something supported and on-topic if you're such a great debater. The truth is that you have nothing to say, so you resort to ****ing me off.

I don't pretend that my opinions are anything but my opinions. The fact that theyr'e right has some relevance, but I don't see you offering yours, backed up or not. You didn't say anything intelligent in the gay marriage argument either. All you know how to do is complain about what I say and play devil's advocate.

Well, patronizing me to hide your vacuousness isn't on-topic either. Contribute to the conversation or shut the **** up.

I am hardly making light of it. The abortion issue happens to be quite important to me.
I tend to be a single issue voter with regards to it. And honestly there are no points on the pro-abortion side that are serious enough to warrant the destruction of innocent human life.

I kept my original point rahter brief becuase I didnt figure people wanted to debate that particular point much.
BUt hey, im froggy.

Righto, but the world started to end as we know it the moment it began.

The things you are saying are the same things people like me were saying back when klinton was in the oral office.

Patronizing me to hide your vacuousness isn't on-topic. Please stick to the topic or shut up.

Sorry to jump in here so late.

I see where you're coming from - but I disagree.

I don't understand how a president who lied about a getting a blowjob is the same as a president who lied (or 'mislead') about the pretenses for war (Niger - nukes - State of Union -CIA told the administration this was incorrect intel for a speech given in Cincinatti in Oct. of previous year). This is not a matter of opinion - its fact. Oh wait - that's right - Bush's team just overlooked it. At best - it was bad management.

The BJ did not lead to a war (which we are going to lose).

Our list of world allies did not turn into "The Coalition of the Willing" with heavy-hitters like Azerbaijan and Palau because of the BJ.

Thousands of people didn't die becuase of the BJ.

It is NOT the same thing!

And by the way - on abortion - I personally agree with you. If I were to ever get pregnant (which is highly unlikely b/c I don't have a vagina or a uterus) I wouldn't terminate the pregnancy. For me there is no moral justification for terminating a life. But then again - it's not a choice I will likely face. So I will leave that choice up to those who do face it. I imagine it's a whole different ballgame.

The saddest thing about the conservative right is that they don't realize how flawed their logic is everytime they bring up Clinton as an excuse for poor Republican behavior. Friday, your comparison to Clinton's relatively innocuous behavior doesn't excuse Bush's total lack of credibility, education, moral compass (hey, I can say I'm a Christian too - big deal), knowledge of world affairs (love a president that brags about not reading newspapers - good example for our kids), focus (probably as poor a communicator as I've seen in national politics), control over his subordinates (please don't get me started on Rice, Rumsfield & Haliberton). Look, it is so painfully obvious that Bush is in over his head - and since the conservatives cannot defend him, they must use an old familiar battle cry... "Clinton, Clinton". Pathetic.

BTW, I did not vote for Clinton and was not a Clinton supporter. I am neither a democrat or republican. I am an issue oriented centrist. There is much to be gained from looking at the world objectively, not being a party hack and understanding that, believe it or not, sometimes our initial political intuition about Bush just might be wrong. And while I don't share the more radical views of some of our other posters, even if I were a staunch conservative, I'd agree that Bush must go. He's a failure.

I would advise you guys to read the book "lies and the lying liers who tell them" by Al Franken.

well, first of all.. considering the circumstances under which he clinton had lied.. I dont think it was innocuous.. If I recall correctly he being tried for the sexual assault of another woman.

Second.. I dont think Bush "lied" about the WMD's. He may have operated on grossly innacurate intelligence, but you do remember Clinton operated on this same intelligence.
He stood before the nation and spoke of Saddams WMD program and how something had to be done about it, even going so far as to bomb a pharmaceutical company if I recall correctly.

And invading Iraq has been on the to-do list for the past three administrations.
Clinton had his Yugoslavia, Bush has his iraq.

And like I said.. Clinton dropped his bombs on Iraq too.. coincidentaly right at the time he was being impeached. nice little distraction there.. so actualy I wonder how many people DID die for clitons blowjob...


I understand where you are comming from, but I disagree with you. If there is something that is immoral that is occuring in our society.. particularly something as horrible as the slaughter of innocence.. it is EVERYONES duty to object and do thier best to put a stop to it..
You dont have to havea uterus to feel that infanticide is immoral and should be stopped.

Oh no, we realize it. We just marvel sometimes at how short the memory of the left can be...
The left would like to believe that Bush is the right hand of satan, and he may very well be.. but Clinton was certainly his left.

Well, I dont really feel too much need to defned him as Im not all that pleased with him either. I just find the liberals to be rather hypocritical in their attacks on Bush for his invasion of a soverign nation when clinton had done the same thing, and operated on the same intelligence.
And if the tables were turned and it was Clinton who invaded IRaq.. the conservatives would likely be saying the same things the liberals are.
It's all pretty stupid really.
Thats why I think BOTH parties are messed up and that the two party system SUCKS.

Oh spare me. I distincly remember the cries of "REGAN! REGAN!" during the clinton years.
It's what folks do. Just watch... the next democrat that is in office will start screwing up and the republicans will start hammering him, while the liberals cry "GW BUSH!!! REMEMBER GW BUSH!!!!?"

I did vote for bush, and regret it. I would have rather voted for Buchannan. He might be a little loopy but at least he is a real conservative.

I agree, but I would not want to see him replaced with Kerry.
I would rather see him replaced witha real conservative. Not some guy who claims to be a conservative, then hands out tax rebates, then grows the government to rediculous sizes and starts passing laws that expand the tentacles of the government into our private lives in the name of national security by bribing our mail men and garbage pickup guys into ratting folks out.