In my opinion there are no ramifications beyond the financial ones. You say there are, that you've already listed some and won't list any others.

So humor me: what are we talking about? What am I working so hard to avoid?

Oh crap.

This is tedious.

Just for starters (and this in no way, comes CLOSE to a complete list of possible concerns):

- Does allowing gay marriage open the door to polygamy? Of not, why not? If so, is that acceptable? - and will it CONTINUE to open doors to other unconventional "marriages"?

- Would gay couples be subject to the same principles of "common law" marriage afforded to heterosexual couples?

- Would/should gay couples be subject to the same restrictions of law relating to marriage as to heterosexual couples (i.e. no intrafamily, no minors, etc)?

- Would gay "spouses" enjoy the same "family" health care benefits as heterosexual families? - If so, how does that apply to the provision of pregnancy benefits, since obviously, a gay couple doesn't have any, directly - but they very well could ask for them - for surrogates and the like?

- Would these marriages have the same set of controls governing behavior in the marriage (i.e. cohabitation, consummation, fidelity, obligation to provide financial and other support) - Remember here, we are talking about a largely different "culture" than what has been experienced in heterosexual culture. Let's not fail to acknowledge that.

- Will gay marriages be more/less likely to end in divorce?

- Would gay marriage have the same standards for "community property" as heterosexual marriage?

- Would gay "partnerships" - which are NOT technically "marriages" - be more/less subject to claims of "palimony."? Why/why not? SHOULD they be?

- Would/should gay married couples have the same rights to adoption as heterosexual couples? - as gay UNmarrried couples? (more rights? less?)

- Would gay married couples in divorce have the same standards for heterosexuals apply to the issues of child custody? - Alimony? - Grounds for divorce? - Separation?

- Would gay couples be subject to the same standards with respect to joint property?

- Would gay couples be subject to the same standards with respect to inheritance? Probate with no will?

- Is there a greater possiblity and/or opportunity for "contract marriage" or "marriage of convenience" (i.e. just to acquire benefits) with gay marriages?


Be clear, I am NOT asking for responses to any of these concerns. You asked for some concerns that you "were working so hard to avoid," that I could think of. This list simply represents what I could think of, in a few minutes.

I am also certainly not saying that these are ALL of the issues that should nbe considered. Nor am I saying they are all difficult to resolve, or that any of them result in a reasonable conclusion NOT to allow gay marraiges.

What I have been saying, ALL ALONG, however, is that we must at least RECOGNIZE the reasonable concerns/questions that anyone legitimately points out, when discussing the issue.

It's not really very productive to just say "It's a free country. Simple as that. I think it's a civil right and nothing else matters." Or worse, accuse those who might oppose the idea of ONLY putting forth their own moral/political agenda.

You've got to ask "Why are you opposed? Do you have some legitimate concerns?" and then say "Because I thought about some of the concerns, and I think all or most of them can be addressed, as follows..." "Do you have OTHER concerns?"

Of COURSE, if someone is just going to start screaming "It's a crime against GOD!!!!" or something similarly inapplicable and not supportable by logic, you can dismiss THAT as not relevant. But it would be foolish to say ALL oppostiion is that threadbare and to not be prepared to counter any considered, logical opposition that might be raised.

C'mon you guy's, Can't we all just get along? Besides It's just about time for Johnny boy to tell us how much America sucks again. (in case you forgot) Here Johnny, Johnny, Johnny...... Ahhh, he must be down at the Pub having a pint, Oh well.

No it doesn’t open that door, because you’re equating something positive – a bond between two people – with something that hurts people.


Absolutely, they should.

Cerrtainly no minors, but intrafamily is an interesting question.

They’re 100% entitled to the same benefits as far as I'm concerned.


Why shouldn’t all those things apply? The only difference is that you have two members of the same sex.


Who knows, but they have an equal right to that too.

Again, why not?

I don’t know, but why not?

The same, in my opinion. But the best interest of the children always comes first, and I'm not sure you can legislate all the guidelines for that.

Yes, I don't see any alternative.

Yes.

Yes.

I don’t see why.


Too late! And I don't understand why you didn't just raise those issues four pages ago.


I disagree. Well, I’m not saying these aren’t issues, but the bottom line is that none of them undermines the basic right. Most of these issues are pretty sticky with heterosexual couples too, of course.

Also note that gay couples already do adopt and have children today, without being married.

Again, when two people want to get married it’s a positive thing!

Y'know, before this started Nick only had about 1700 posts.

Hey Nick, I'd hate to think that there is a "hidden agenda" here...i.e. surpassing Jeremy's post total?!?! Naw, that wouldn't be it.

Look at the doldrums we were in before Jeremy and RaJ started going at it, and then Nick et al with this subject. It seems to me the DA7 equivalent of "cabin fever"

Nick, come out of the closet, you ARE gay, it's obvious. Tell you what, i'll try to get gay and we can marry. We'll invite all here to the wedding and releasse this thread as a book.

BTW, I don't like anal or oral so you may need to bring a few gay magazines to bed with you...

G O D D A M M , he's catching up fast. From now on , I think we should refere to Nick as the GAY MISTER, OR hIS gAYNESS...

It took a lot of posts, Kelly, but I finally won. Not only does Knife agree with me 100% now, but every one of the religious right nuts on this board does too.

And Jeremy, you'll have to convert to Judaism before I'll marry you. (Purely for kinky reasons - I'm not religious.)

John, I'm afraid I'm not *that* English anymore after having lived in this country since 1962 (except for a year at school in 1968). Don't tell anybody, but I drink beer about once every four months, so I can't get emotional about bad ****water.

Pretty gay, I know, but I was born this way. It goes with the pedophilia gene...

:p

After reading 5 pages of this, all I can say is....imported beer is better......way better......